It's so insidious. Because none of the "trappings" -- homeschooling, homesteading, making food -- are bad. But the legalism, the FEAR, the shame. Those are pervasive and toxic. Even after years of counseling I struggle with finding the way through the messages of the toxic soup I grew up in. I describe the experience as looking through a home's wreckage for the foundation that is sturdy enough to be built on. I had to tear most of it down before I could build something again. But I still find it difficult to find community within these groups -- I get easily spooked by homeschool co-ops etc...The trad wife influencer thing is so sneaky. Because it's hard to criticize outright. You have to dig and dig to discover that the theology underpinning it is deeply flawed and has nothing at all to do with accepting God's grace.
Yes, yes, yes! This names so much. So much is tangled up in aesthetic things that are pretty neutral or - when in the realm of preference or choice - simply that. But when it comes with guaranteed results or spiritual authority or expectations that if you don't do X, Y, or Z, families fall apart, etc. it becomes such a heavy yoke.
Was trying to describe to my husband the “vibe” of many of the moms at the last church we were going to, (mixed with some other weird gender theology I was gathering was a big hit among them). This is exactly it. We ended up switching churches because i just couldn’t take it anymore. And on paper there is so much I’m on board with ! Your point about there being good things, but having to dig further for the *why* is spot on.
Yea, it’s almost maddening trying to put your finger on what’s “off” about it. But any time something causes you to repeatedly think that YOU are the crazy one, over and over, I think it’s a red flag. It’s not that we are not sometimes wrong and need to course correct, but these things seem to breed this complete distrust of your own judgment (which often ties into the gender theology).
"distrust of your own judgment" - encapsulates so much. Because I think often the various teachings are paired with instruction to ignore your feelings (or question them) and choose the good or die to self or this rhetoric that can cause women to power through when maybe their own judgments or desires or even bodily sensations like fatigue/anxiety/depression/etc or telling them things have gone awry. It can be very disorienting.
The saints write all the time about distrusting your own strength and your own judgment and relying solely on God. But they’re taking for granted that we are listening to our own conscience, have a good enough education to distinguish nonsense from truth, and know who is a good spiritual authority. All of which depend on a healthy trust of one’s own judgment.
Marissa, I was in a conversation yesterday with someone my age in a church you know, bemoaning the damages that were done in the 70's to moms like my friend and myself. The lies continue to be perpretrated (sp) and I'm so glad you're writing about this!
(Tia Leving's name was running through my head while I was reading this; we met in a writer's group on FB when she first pitched her book. A humdinger.)
...
You are wise beyond your years, friend; I'm grateful for your voice.
A friend pointed me to this post, and boy do I see why. I came out of Gothardism (wrote my own novel about it, in fact). I have a lovely life today, but it's definitely shaped by the "choices" I had to make when I was younger. I'm vaguely aware of the Tradwife circle, but have avoided it. That weight you describe, of 22-year-old you trying so hard to make it all work -- yeah, my back aches just thinking about it. But man is the aesthetic beautiful, and the promises bright! I know the truth, though. (And ONE truth is that all these women -- the ones who used to write books and speak at conferences, and now the ones that run YouTube and TikTok channels -- are NOT just "stay at home moms," but very hardworking, money-making women who have nannies and housekeepers to help them keep everything going.) Also, Betty Crocker, "IF" a woman is tired... she can go crash on the couch and read a book for the rest of the afternoon. So there.
Sara, thank you for sharing some of your story here - Gothardism is indeed a very particularly heavy yoke. Thankful you have found an alternative path forward!
This is a good education to what I have been sensing among many young and seemingly desperate holy holistic influencers. Had no clue the term "Trad Wife" and have often always and forever wondered why one can't "just be" in a relationship with Jesus, love your husband, kids, and go on and live one's life seeking one's unique purpose within the realm of all the hats we wear. These communities aren't new, as you say, in your wonderfully expressed writing,.. they are now more desperate to influence in a bit of a self-serving way on social media, which makes it all the more group-think dangerous.
Yes! And as is so common there's also the continual push to make one's own experience normative for everyone. So even if a woman is genuinely finding all these good and nourishing things about her domestic choices, the impulse to tell everyone else to do the same is - among other things - a big boundary issue lol (we are not very good at boundaries in evangelicalism haha). And how you describe reorienting around love for Jesus and family...and letting the freedom of personality and individual family culture shape that.
Yesss. Boundaries! The scales have definitely tipped, in more ways than we can possibly count, due to technology! I love the way you put "reorienting around our love of Jesus and family"... We must love Him through our uniqueness and purpose and let go and let that develop in our children and in our community of family and friends around us. As a professional photographer of many, many years with a fiercely independent artist's soul, the last thing I wanted to do was conform or copy. He writes our own unique stories. I chose to be my own unique person. Not a label. I feel that a lot of this is the pressure that social media brings about, then a need to fit in with it all. It's very odd to witness as an older woman who was blessed to raise a family with zero need to share how I was doing that... stumbling and all (except for with a very small circle of friends who were also stumbling along). Thank you for your response! ox
"It’s almost as though any internal warning signs are preemptively argued away and instead cloaked with spiritual language about contentment, dying to self, and submitting to another’s will." ....."These kind of community betrayals—and sometimes our own self-betrayal—leave us with many losses and much to grieve."
Yes to all of this. And what a beautiful invitation to rest fully in Christ! That is what set me free from this mindset! Thank you, again, Marissa!
I am SO with that apron-clad gal taking a quick z on the floor. 😂
Thank you for your research and analysis in this series - prosperity theology has really infused so many avenues of Christianity. Idols abound everywhere we turn!
haha! NGL I have done this very thing and she's maybe onto something! I might need more than 3-5 (how to pick?) minutes, but the stopping and resting is not such bad advice.
Really appreciate this writing. Like you said - no matter how much I lean into grace as I grow and learn that the legalism I was taught isn’t the way of Christ, the impulse is always there to return to the lists. I had to throw away my Excellent Wife copy too, a couple years ago. And Lies Women Believe, and many other of those prosperity gospel books. And Beautiful Girlhood, which was the book I had read religiously before I was married. So many books.
Anyways - appreciate this format a lot because it’s easy to share. Thank you!!
Thank you so much for your research and writing! It's wonderful to have someone articulate the issues with trad wife thought. I grew up in this movement and now in my early twenties, it's so hard to find a way forward and disentangle from the old ways of thinking (while still keeping faith alive).
I hear you. It gets knotted and wrapped up with spiritual language and faith and can be very disorienting to unravel. Which is one thing that I find so troubling about the easy way in which spiritual authority language is woven in throughout these things. It really can be formative! Good job doing the important work of examining and finding new paths forward.
Marissa I'm enjoying all these comments and conversation so much. Got to jump in and ask, you mentioned a co-author. Sounds like you're working on a book? Maybe I missed that, tell me more...
Thank you, yes! I hope to be able to give more details very soon (!!!!) but Kelsey Kramer McGinnis (she's not on substack but you can find her on many of my instagram/tiktok posts) and I are working on a book tracing the history of popular Christian parenting teaching and examining the underlying theological assumptions and relational impact.
I get so irritated when I see the homesteading, natural living, organic stuff from friends, but I could never figure out why.
Homesteading? I HATE nature and I LOATHE animals.
Organic? Ummm...do you know the meaning of "inflammation?"
Natural living? No thanks
And cooking? OMG I seriously dislike cooking
I do laundry, but not with coconut oil soup, and a clothesline.
But honestly, these things aren't bad, if you are up to it. It's the mentality that it's the RIGHT way. (Or, the fact that they get all the press, and if you're a normal, homeschooling mom who lives on McDonald's and ABC mouse you are lumped in with the crazies.)
They're selling something that can't be bought; and, even it could be, it's not worth the price.
Yes! Exactly this! Preferences according to personality and desire are lovely and can shift as we do. But when they become presented as God's Way and lesser/more godly depending on performance - wow is it a heavy yoke!
I can only speak for myself and women I know. My mother was a traditional homemaker when we were growing up. Then she went to work and our family fell apart. All my friends were latchkey kids who didn’t want the same loneliness for their kids. I agree some churches are kind of cultish about this stuff but a lot of women are embracing their femininity and maternal instincts because they’ve experienced being lost on in the toxic feminist culture--which leaves quite a lot of grief and regret in its wake too.
Thanks so much for sharing a bit of your perspective here. And also: I am sorry. ❤️🩹
I think you’ve articulated well some additional longings that may draw ppl to the aspirational ideals being promised in Tradwife content. My goal with this post is to question whether the promises themselves are realistic and what happens when spiritual language is used to indicate those preferences=God’s requirements for families.
You are welcome! And yes! The crunchy, homesteading, off grid lifestyle has such a big overlap and draw. I'm very curious to see how these things play out in other cultural contexts so it's interesting to hear there are elements of this in the UK as well.
You're welcome! Yes! It's a project that's been on a slow-simmer for me for awhile. Hoping to give it more attention after this current book project is finished.
It's so insidious. Because none of the "trappings" -- homeschooling, homesteading, making food -- are bad. But the legalism, the FEAR, the shame. Those are pervasive and toxic. Even after years of counseling I struggle with finding the way through the messages of the toxic soup I grew up in. I describe the experience as looking through a home's wreckage for the foundation that is sturdy enough to be built on. I had to tear most of it down before I could build something again. But I still find it difficult to find community within these groups -- I get easily spooked by homeschool co-ops etc...The trad wife influencer thing is so sneaky. Because it's hard to criticize outright. You have to dig and dig to discover that the theology underpinning it is deeply flawed and has nothing at all to do with accepting God's grace.
Yes, yes, yes! This names so much. So much is tangled up in aesthetic things that are pretty neutral or - when in the realm of preference or choice - simply that. But when it comes with guaranteed results or spiritual authority or expectations that if you don't do X, Y, or Z, families fall apart, etc. it becomes such a heavy yoke.
Okay Annelise, you said it better than I could.
Was trying to describe to my husband the “vibe” of many of the moms at the last church we were going to, (mixed with some other weird gender theology I was gathering was a big hit among them). This is exactly it. We ended up switching churches because i just couldn’t take it anymore. And on paper there is so much I’m on board with ! Your point about there being good things, but having to dig further for the *why* is spot on.
Yea, it’s almost maddening trying to put your finger on what’s “off” about it. But any time something causes you to repeatedly think that YOU are the crazy one, over and over, I think it’s a red flag. It’s not that we are not sometimes wrong and need to course correct, but these things seem to breed this complete distrust of your own judgment (which often ties into the gender theology).
"distrust of your own judgment" - encapsulates so much. Because I think often the various teachings are paired with instruction to ignore your feelings (or question them) and choose the good or die to self or this rhetoric that can cause women to power through when maybe their own judgments or desires or even bodily sensations like fatigue/anxiety/depression/etc or telling them things have gone awry. It can be very disorienting.
The saints write all the time about distrusting your own strength and your own judgment and relying solely on God. But they’re taking for granted that we are listening to our own conscience, have a good enough education to distinguish nonsense from truth, and know who is a good spiritual authority. All of which depend on a healthy trust of one’s own judgment.
GREAT point.
Marissa, I was in a conversation yesterday with someone my age in a church you know, bemoaning the damages that were done in the 70's to moms like my friend and myself. The lies continue to be perpretrated (sp) and I'm so glad you're writing about this!
(Tia Leving's name was running through my head while I was reading this; we met in a writer's group on FB when she first pitched her book. A humdinger.)
...
You are wise beyond your years, friend; I'm grateful for your voice.
Thank you so much for sharing your perspective Jody! The cycle just continues to repeat, doesn't it?
And yes! Tia's posts this week on this have been phenomenal - can't wait for her book!
A friend pointed me to this post, and boy do I see why. I came out of Gothardism (wrote my own novel about it, in fact). I have a lovely life today, but it's definitely shaped by the "choices" I had to make when I was younger. I'm vaguely aware of the Tradwife circle, but have avoided it. That weight you describe, of 22-year-old you trying so hard to make it all work -- yeah, my back aches just thinking about it. But man is the aesthetic beautiful, and the promises bright! I know the truth, though. (And ONE truth is that all these women -- the ones who used to write books and speak at conferences, and now the ones that run YouTube and TikTok channels -- are NOT just "stay at home moms," but very hardworking, money-making women who have nannies and housekeepers to help them keep everything going.) Also, Betty Crocker, "IF" a woman is tired... she can go crash on the couch and read a book for the rest of the afternoon. So there.
Sara, thank you for sharing some of your story here - Gothardism is indeed a very particularly heavy yoke. Thankful you have found an alternative path forward!
And LOL - I like your advice better than Betty's
This is a good education to what I have been sensing among many young and seemingly desperate holy holistic influencers. Had no clue the term "Trad Wife" and have often always and forever wondered why one can't "just be" in a relationship with Jesus, love your husband, kids, and go on and live one's life seeking one's unique purpose within the realm of all the hats we wear. These communities aren't new, as you say, in your wonderfully expressed writing,.. they are now more desperate to influence in a bit of a self-serving way on social media, which makes it all the more group-think dangerous.
Yes! And as is so common there's also the continual push to make one's own experience normative for everyone. So even if a woman is genuinely finding all these good and nourishing things about her domestic choices, the impulse to tell everyone else to do the same is - among other things - a big boundary issue lol (we are not very good at boundaries in evangelicalism haha). And how you describe reorienting around love for Jesus and family...and letting the freedom of personality and individual family culture shape that.
Yesss. Boundaries! The scales have definitely tipped, in more ways than we can possibly count, due to technology! I love the way you put "reorienting around our love of Jesus and family"... We must love Him through our uniqueness and purpose and let go and let that develop in our children and in our community of family and friends around us. As a professional photographer of many, many years with a fiercely independent artist's soul, the last thing I wanted to do was conform or copy. He writes our own unique stories. I chose to be my own unique person. Not a label. I feel that a lot of this is the pressure that social media brings about, then a need to fit in with it all. It's very odd to witness as an older woman who was blessed to raise a family with zero need to share how I was doing that... stumbling and all (except for with a very small circle of friends who were also stumbling along). Thank you for your response! ox
"It’s almost as though any internal warning signs are preemptively argued away and instead cloaked with spiritual language about contentment, dying to self, and submitting to another’s will." ....."These kind of community betrayals—and sometimes our own self-betrayal—leave us with many losses and much to grieve."
Yes to all of this. And what a beautiful invitation to rest fully in Christ! That is what set me free from this mindset! Thank you, again, Marissa!
Freedom tastes good, doesn't it? He is so kind.
I am SO with that apron-clad gal taking a quick z on the floor. 😂
Thank you for your research and analysis in this series - prosperity theology has really infused so many avenues of Christianity. Idols abound everywhere we turn!
haha! NGL I have done this very thing and she's maybe onto something! I might need more than 3-5 (how to pick?) minutes, but the stopping and resting is not such bad advice.
But YES prosperity theology wears so many forms.
I feel like the crux of prosperty gospel isn't even confined to theology these days - it's in secular environments, wellness culture, etc!
So true. It's kind of the bread and butter of a lot of self-help content which spreads so easily via influencers.
Really appreciate this writing. Like you said - no matter how much I lean into grace as I grow and learn that the legalism I was taught isn’t the way of Christ, the impulse is always there to return to the lists. I had to throw away my Excellent Wife copy too, a couple years ago. And Lies Women Believe, and many other of those prosperity gospel books. And Beautiful Girlhood, which was the book I had read religiously before I was married. So many books.
Anyways - appreciate this format a lot because it’s easy to share. Thank you!!
You are so very welcome! And I hear you - so. many. books. I've had to clear out quite a few myself over the years.
Thank you so much for your research and writing! It's wonderful to have someone articulate the issues with trad wife thought. I grew up in this movement and now in my early twenties, it's so hard to find a way forward and disentangle from the old ways of thinking (while still keeping faith alive).
I hear you. It gets knotted and wrapped up with spiritual language and faith and can be very disorienting to unravel. Which is one thing that I find so troubling about the easy way in which spiritual authority language is woven in throughout these things. It really can be formative! Good job doing the important work of examining and finding new paths forward.
Marissa I'm enjoying all these comments and conversation so much. Got to jump in and ask, you mentioned a co-author. Sounds like you're working on a book? Maybe I missed that, tell me more...
Thank you, yes! I hope to be able to give more details very soon (!!!!) but Kelsey Kramer McGinnis (she's not on substack but you can find her on many of my instagram/tiktok posts) and I are working on a book tracing the history of popular Christian parenting teaching and examining the underlying theological assumptions and relational impact.
I'll share news here when I have it. :)
I get so irritated when I see the homesteading, natural living, organic stuff from friends, but I could never figure out why.
Homesteading? I HATE nature and I LOATHE animals.
Organic? Ummm...do you know the meaning of "inflammation?"
Natural living? No thanks
And cooking? OMG I seriously dislike cooking
I do laundry, but not with coconut oil soup, and a clothesline.
But honestly, these things aren't bad, if you are up to it. It's the mentality that it's the RIGHT way. (Or, the fact that they get all the press, and if you're a normal, homeschooling mom who lives on McDonald's and ABC mouse you are lumped in with the crazies.)
They're selling something that can't be bought; and, even it could be, it's not worth the price.
Yes! Exactly this! Preferences according to personality and desire are lovely and can shift as we do. But when they become presented as God's Way and lesser/more godly depending on performance - wow is it a heavy yoke!
I can only speak for myself and women I know. My mother was a traditional homemaker when we were growing up. Then she went to work and our family fell apart. All my friends were latchkey kids who didn’t want the same loneliness for their kids. I agree some churches are kind of cultish about this stuff but a lot of women are embracing their femininity and maternal instincts because they’ve experienced being lost on in the toxic feminist culture--which leaves quite a lot of grief and regret in its wake too.
Thanks so much for sharing a bit of your perspective here. And also: I am sorry. ❤️🩹
I think you’ve articulated well some additional longings that may draw ppl to the aspirational ideals being promised in Tradwife content. My goal with this post is to question whether the promises themselves are realistic and what happens when spiritual language is used to indicate those preferences=God’s requirements for families.
Yup, you're my new favorite Substack. :)
Oh, look, it's The Friend who pointed me to this post. :)
of course! :)
Aw, this is so kind! I'm so glad you found me!
You are welcome! And yes! The crunchy, homesteading, off grid lifestyle has such a big overlap and draw. I'm very curious to see how these things play out in other cultural contexts so it's interesting to hear there are elements of this in the UK as well.
You're welcome! Yes! It's a project that's been on a slow-simmer for me for awhile. Hoping to give it more attention after this current book project is finished.